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The following is a transcript of an interview with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries that aired on “Face the Nation” on May 28, 2023.

MARGARET BRENNAN: House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins us now from his district in Brooklyn. Good morning to you. Let’s get straight to it, can you deliver a majority of Democrats?

DEMOCRATIC LEADER REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, good morning Margaret. I do look forward to the White House briefing that’s going to take place later on this afternoon with the House Democratic Caucus. We’ll be able to have a robust discussion, but let me say this, President Biden has delivered a result that avoids a catastrophic default, that prevents us from- our economy crashing and stops the extreme MAGA Republicans from triggering a job killing recession, which as we’ve seen over the last week or two increasingly seemed to have been a position that they were taking for political reasons.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, well, we’ll only avoid a default if you can get the votes to get it through. Speaker McCarthy predicted this morning he can get a majority of Republicans he says some Democrats he thinks will vote for it. But he also quoted something he says You told him. Listen.

SPEAKER REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY/ FOX NEWS/ SOUND ON TAPE:

I think there’s gonna be a lot of Democrats who vote for it too. Right now, the Democrats are very upset. But one thing Hakeem told me, there’s nothing in the bill for them. There’s not one thing in the bill for Democrats.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you say that? And how do you convince Democrats?

REP. JEFFRIES: I have no idea what he’s talking about, particularly because I have not been able to review the actual legislative text, all that we’ve reached is an agreement in principle. Now what I’ve consistently said both privately and –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you even talk to him?

REP. JEFFRIES: I talked to him yesterday afternoon, but I haven’t talked to him since that point in time. What I’ve consistently said, however, privately and publicly was that the extreme MAGA Republican negotiating position, and that the extreme bill that they passed on April 26th, the Default on America Act contained nothing that was consistent with Democratic values or American values. And it was unreasonable to think that that negotiating position was going to be able to result in a resolution that would make sense for the American people when he understood and everyone understood that a bipartisan resolution was the only way forward to avoid a catastrophic default.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, and that’s a bill that is going nowhere. In terms of the one that was or is being written as we speak. The head of the Progressive Caucus Pramila Jayapal said on CNN this morning, you need to worry about the left flank of the party. She has 102 members in that caucus. How many Democratic defections do you expect?

REP. JEFFRIES:

Well, I’ve had several conversations with Pramila Jayapal over the last several days and will continue to do so. I expect that she’ll be part of the caucus briefing that takes place later on today. Here’s what I can say, is that the agreement that was reached in principle by President Biden does several important things. In addition to avoiding a devastating default that would hurt everyday Americans. It protects Social Security. It protects Medicare, it protects Medicaid. It protects veterans. It protects the American people.

[CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: She’s concerned about environmental – environmental policy changes and food stamps.

REP: JEFFRIES: Hold on, I’ll get to that. It protects the American people from the types of devastating spending cuts that were proposed by Republicans in their Default on America Act. Those are incredibly significant steps forward. Now in terms of the permitting issue, I haven’t had the opportunity, nor have any of us had the opportunity to review what the proposed language may ultimately be, in terms of the permitting situation. In terms of SNAP as I understand it, and again, we’ll have the opportunity to review that language in a few hours when it is released, but as I understand it, it will actually result in an expansion of eligibility for people like veterans and the homeless because of changes made to exemptions as a result of what will be in this agreement, in terms of the original 1996 law that was passed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, according to the White House it is going to relax work requirements for veterans and homeless people, but it still pushes up the age to 54 from 49. Are you implying, do you mean to say here that the White House hasn’t kept you fully briefed on the details?

REP. JEFFRIES: The White House has, of course, kept all of us fully briefed every step of the way. However, I do think that as the White House has indicated, this is only an agreement in principle.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REP. JEFFRIES: There will not be a final agreement until we all are able to review the actual legislative text.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. The White House is still calling this a budget deal and a separate debt limit increase, but McCarthy says it’s a 150-page bill and not a clean debt ceiling increase. Is just one vote, one bill?

REP. JEFFRIES: Well, that remains to be seen, and ultimately, that’s a decision that House Republicans have as their prerogative to make. I do hope and expect to see a significant number of House Republicans voting for this agreement. It’s my understanding that they are committed to producing at least 150 votes, if not more. They were the ones who negotiated this agreement with the White House. And I expect that they will provide a significant number of votes to get it over the finish line.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, so 150 Republicans, you need something in the range of 70 Democrats? Do you think you’d have that?

REP. JEFFRIES: Well, I do expect that there will be Democratic support once we have the ability to actually be fully briefed by the White House, but I’m not gonna predict what those numbers may ultimately look like. We have to go through a process consistent with respecting every single member of the House of Representatives and their ability to fully understand the resolution that has been reached.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well, Jim Himes of Connecticut, not a progressive, said this morning, if this vote fails, I think we’re going to see the kind of market reaction that none of us want to see. Can you deliver a vote? Can you deliver someone like him? Can you deliver a vote that wins on the first try? He’s talking about a market crash.

REP. JEFFRIES: Well, we have to of course, avoid a market crash. We have to avoid tanking the economy. We have to avoid a default. The reason why we’re in this situation from the very beginning is that extreme MAGA Republicans made the determination that they were going to use the possibility of default to hold the economy and everyday Americans hostage. Period, full stop.

[CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood but that’s- that’s where we are right now. And that negotiation happened.

[CROSSTALK]

REP. JEFFRIES: That’s right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You negotiated with them. So here we are.

REP. JEFFRIES:  And that’s why I’m thankful that President Biden has reached a resolution. And that’s also why I’m thankful that notwithstanding the fact that they were trying to jam 10 year spending caps down the throats of the American people, we were able to apparently match up a freeze in spending consistent with 2023 levels- 2023 levels, not the 2022 levels, that’s what they were trying to extract, and thankful that we avoided a catastrophic default.

[CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s some disagreement on those but we don’t have the text. So we will just have to wait on that. But I want to ask about the backup plan. 213 Democrats voted for this discharge petition, this idea of being able to vote to lift the debt ceiling, even if Republicans- if the Republican leader doesn’t do it. You’d need five Republicans. Can you do that? Can you guarantee people that we will not see a default?

REP. JEFFRIES: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Hakeem Jeffries, glad to have you with us. Hopefully we see you here in person next time.

The following is a transcript of an interview with Rep. French Hill, Republican of Arkansas, that aired on “Face the Nation” on May 28, 2023.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And that’s where we’re turning now to Arkansas Republican Congressman French Hill, who joins us from Little Rock. Good morning to you, sir.

REP. FRENCH HILL: Margaret, good to be with you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let’s pick up where we left off. The leader says 150 Republican votes can be delivered by the GOP. Do you have those votes for this deal?

REP. HILL: I feel confident that we’ll have those votes after people review the text, talk with their colleagues, compare it to our goals. Speaker McCarthy is the only person who’s demonstrated urgency on this point starting when he was sworn in, and starting with this first meeting with President Biden to get to a sensible and responsible increase to the debt ceiling. He had to red lines, Margaret, no tax increase and not a clean debt ceiling. And I think he’s achieved that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. So it will be just one bill, one vote.

REP. HILL: That’s my view.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, that decision has been made, it sounds like based on what you’re indicating here. In terms of the votes, though, you still have to be able to deliver those 150 Republicans to vote this through. Hakeem Jeffries says he can get the Democrats in line. We’ll see. Can you guarantee that this vote will happen and will succeed on first try?

REP. HILL: I believe it will. I’ll tell you why. We had our plan, which we passed as you noted on April 26, with the full support of the American people to stop the avalanche of spending and each component we had of limiting the rate of growth limiting the amount of–

MARGARET BRENNAN: But that’s past tense. I don’t want to talk about the past tense that bill’s dead. We’re talking about the deal.

REP. HILL: No, no, no, it’s not dead, no no no–

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk about whether you can actually deliver that on Wednesday–

REP. HILL: We can. We can.

MARGARET BRENNAN: This Wednesday is when the speaker says it will happen on this tentative agreement.

REP. HILL: Okay, well, my point is that it’s not past tense. Each of the components we had in the bill on the 26th is reflected in this negotiated deal and principle that the speaker achieved with President Biden, and that’s why I believe that we’ll have those votes on Wednesday because we limit the rate of growth, we cut spending, we clawback unneeded spending and recisions. We stop unnecessary spending, and we get our economy growing with regulatory relief and by encouraging more people back to work.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well, Chip Roy and others from the Freedom Caucus said they don’t even want to see the vote happen, and they’re going to try to block it.

REP. HILL: Okay, well, they need to read the text and visit with their colleagues.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you read it? Because we haven’t.

REP. HILL:  No, I’m going to read it this afternoon when it’s posted on the House website.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. So in terms of what is being drafted, there’s differences here in terms of spending freezes, and which year we’re comparing it to. The spin for the Republicans and Democrats is very different on this, what is actually going into the text?

REP. HILL: Well, we’re going to limit the rate of spending growth for nondefense, nonveteran spending, it will be at FY 22 levels, Defense and Veterans will be at FY 23 levels, and then we kept the growth right and spending 1% a year for six years. That was a key component in the April 26 bill when we offered 1% of growth for 10 years. We also are going to go to a Massey-Emmer approach on appropriations bills, which finally opens up and gives strength to the appropriations process, that if all 12 bills are not passed by September 30, then we go to a continuing resolution at 99% of current year spending levels. That’s an immense incentive for the Congress to do its work and pass all 12 bills in the House and the Senate. And that’s the spending issue. And then we- we clawback, as you noted, COVID relief money, other decisions, we stop the first year of the 10 year increase in the IRS budget that’s nearly $2 billion of spending stopped. Of that 80 billion that was to be spent over 10 years for hiring IRS agents.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well, we will wait to see that text as well. I want to get to what you were just talking about in terms of freezes. I mean, every American knows that, that your dollar doesn’t go as far as it used to because of inflation. This may be a problem for you in the Senate, because we already have Republican Senator Lindsey Graham criticizing this deal. And the defense increase, as you refer to it, because it doesn’t keep up with inflation. How do you sell that? Because he just- he’s- he’s said that national security threats are increasing. And this is a disaster for the Navy and a win for China and Putin. How do you respond to that?

REP. HILL: Well, first, I think that’s why speaker McCarthy and President Biden agreed to the $888 billion spending level, which was the President’s level plus 3% inflation was exactly that point contained in this negotiated deal. I also would say look, we’ve had a gross overreaction in fiscal and monetary policy since the pandemic. And that’s why House Republicans are trying to slow the growth in spending and get back to normal before the pandemic, and all areas are going to have to sacrifice. But look, the speaker and the President agree, we want to preserve defense pervert, preserve veterans, and take Social Security and Medicare off the table. And those are big chunks of the federal budget.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this has to make it through the House and then through the Senate. So it sounds like there’s still a lot of convincing you need to do on those points you just laid out. Are you worried that the scope of this isn’t big enough for you to then go back and sell to some of the skeptical members of your caucus who wanted to see bigger reductions?

REP. HILL: Well, I’m one of those people that wanted bigger reductions, but I also recognize we control only the House of Representatives. We’ve got to get it through the Senate, as you note and the Biden administration controls the central government here. If they were so concerned about the debt ceiling, they could have negotiated with McCarthy a lot earlier, they could have even raised the debt ceiling when they controlled both branches of the House and Senate and the federal government in December, but they didn’t. So this is the world we have. It’s not the spending cuts, I would prefer. But when you look at PAYGO on regulatory costs, that’s a big change. When you look at the Massey-Emmer note on 99% CR on appropriations, that’s a big change. So I think we’re in the absolute right direction. And it absolutely follows the goals of House Republicans as laid out on April 26th.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Congressman, thank you very much for coming on giving us a glimpse into what Republicans are putting on paper right now. FACE THE NATION will be back in a minute. Stay with us.

The following is a transcript of an interview with Austan Goolsbee, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago president and CEO, that aired on “Face the Nation” on May 28, 2023.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Austan Goolsbee, who is the current president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago and a former White House economic advisor in the Obama administration. It’s good to talk to you. I know you were chairman of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisors when we came to the bank back in, in 2011. Markets are closed tomorrow, but we are still very close to that default deadline. How dangerous is the territory we are in, even with this tentative deal?

FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF CHICAGO PRESIDENT AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, it’s definitely a little dangerous, you know, as, as chair Powell has stated from the beginning, we must raise the debt ceiling. Now the fiscal decisions of course are between Congress and the president. And however, they sort it out is- is good by us. But if you, if you did not do that, the consequences for the financial system and for the broader economy would be extremely negative.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How important is it that this vote succeeds on the first try?

GOOLSBEE: Like I say, this is a fiscal decision left to Congress and the president. So I- I it’s, it wouldn’t be the place–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GOOLSBEE:  –for anybody from the Fed to be saying what- what they should pass or, or how they should vote.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

GOOLSBEE: But, you know, I- I liken it too- there’s a legitimate argument if you’re trying to lose weight, you know, what, what can you eat and how much exercise everybody should be able to agree that the first strategy should not be cutting off your toe. Right? Because that doesn’t save much weight and it’s really painful. And that’s, that’s kind of where the debt ceiling is.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Treasury Secretary Yellen said, it’s, it’s already kind of painful, um, because she’s already seeing borrowing costs and- and- that- go up and that there is a cost to being in this place of brinksmanship. What is- can you, in any way, quantify what the impact is to the economy being in the place we are?

GOOLSBEE: Yeah. Look, Margaret, you raise a great point that even the anticipation of these problems does have consequences on the economy and does have consequences on financial markets. In a way this couldn’t be happening at a worse time. So I- I’m, I’m definitely heartened that you saw both parties there on the program expressing confidence that they’re going to be able to raise the debt ceiling. And, and- because if you, if you just look at what’s happening to the rates, you already see that- that there’s fear and uncertainty, but there are multiple steps that can get worse. So if you have banks already on edge, because of the financial and, and banking stresses that we’ve seen over the last couple of months, taking the safest asset on anyone’s balance sheet, which is US Treasuries, and kind of calling it into question is not good for the banking system, is not good for lending, is not good for the real economy. And you’ll start to get into other problems like if the rating agencies downgrade–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

GOOLSBEE. –US Treasuries again, then that could raise the interest rates we have to pay even more and you get into secondary problems. Like there are insurance companies that aren’t allowed to hold things that who- whose rating isn’t high enough. So let’s just avoid it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GOOLSBEE: Let’s just raise the debt ceiling and, and get onto the next thing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Um, and, and I understand that you’re in a very different role now at, at the Fed than you were back then, but this is a complicated economic environment we are in. Can you say, at this point, I know you haven’t seen the text, no one has, what this will do to the fight against inflation and some of the choices you will have to make at the Fed.

GOOLSBEE: Well, look, as I say, raising the debt ceiling and decisions about the budget have- that- that’s none of the Fed’s business. The law gives the Fed two jobs, maximize employment, stabilize prices. We’ve done very well on the employment side. We’re improving on the inflation side, but we have not succeeded. Inflation’s still well higher than where we want it to be. So it- at a moment of banking crisis, it will be a great relief if we raise the debt ceiling, we go back to dealing with the, with the matters at hand, which are the real economy side of, of employment and inflation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have a sense yet of whether you personally want to raise interest rates again at this next June meeting?

GOOLSBEE: Well, you know, as a voting member of the FOMC, I tried not to make it a point not to prejudge and make decisions when you’re still weeks out from the meeting. And we are going to get a lot of important data between now. I think the part that makes this job difficult is you got two simple goals, but the actions that the Fed takes take months, or even years to work their way through the system. So the Fed has raised the interest rate by five full percentage points over the last year. That’s the fastest increase in decades, rivaling ever. And some part of that still has to work its way through the system.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

GOOLSBEE: So there’s no doubt. Inflation is too high still. It has come down and we’re just trying to manage, can we get inflation down–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.

GOOLSBEE: –without starting a recession? There are people who say we cannot, but I think we, that, that we can, and that’s for sure the goal.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. President Goolsbee thank you for your time. And we’ll be right back with a lot more FACE THE NATION. Stay with us.